Podcast: Deming Says Build Continuous Improvement as a Habit and Cost Savings Will Follow

Hosts Dr. Mohamed Saleh and John Dyer dive into Dr. W. Edward Deming's fifth point for management transformation.
Dec. 22, 2025
3 min read

Are your continuous improvement efforts truly continuous, or are they more frequently the “one-and-done” variety until a crisis demands a leap to fire-fighting mode? Are they focused only on the manufacturing floor or do they extend beyond? And is cost reduction your primary goal?

These are among the questions addressed in this episode of Behind the Curtain: Adventures in Continuous Improvement, where Dr. Mohamed Saleh and John Dyer continue their exploration of Dr. W. Edwards Deming’s 14 points for management.

This installment delves into Demin’s fifth point: Improve constantly and forever the system of production and service, to improve quality and productivity, and thus constantly decrease cost.

Dyer leads off the discussion by emphasizing the intentionality of Deming’s wording. For example, he points to the placement of reducing costs at the end of the sentence, not the beginning.

“In other words, [declining costs are] a result of improving constantly and forever. He didn't write it as ‘In order to reduce costs, improve constantly and forever.’ It's the result,” Dyer points out. “That's important, because if it were at the beginning, you could very easily fall into what I've called in the past the cost-cutting death spiral, where you just focus on cutting costs, cutting costs, and that leads to poor quality; it leads to poor performance, which leads to lower customer satisfaction, which leads to lower demand, which means you’ve got to cut costs even further, and you end up basically killing the company.”

Saleh highlights the interrelationship between Deming’s first point—create constancy of purpose—and fifth point, noting that the first point sets the direction, while the fifth point “sustains the momentum toward that direction.”

Both Dyer and Saleh point to Deming’s call to make continuous improvement a habit, not an event with an endpoint. Dyer reflects on a question he is often asked in his consulting role: Aren’t there diminishing returns to improvement? How much is it worth striving for 100% quality when you are achieving 98.5%?

Dyer says not only do you start sliding backward the moment you stop striving for perfection, but the workforce starts losing their problem-solving skills if those skills aren’t used routinely.

Saleh highlights how a daily management system supports continued momentum and reflects on the importance of leadership in driving continuous improvement. Both note that Deming emphasizes continuous improvement as a holistic endeavor that spans every discipline and department within an organization.

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